Windscreen Wipers

Questions and general discussion on all things Type 3 & 4
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Wireless
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Windscreen Wipers

Post by Wireless » 29th August 2014 - 3:20pm

Fairly innocuous title, but did VW ever produce Type 3 Notchback, Fastback, and or Squareback with wipers fitted for RHD or left hand traffic?

My Square is 73 was built for left hand traffic in RHD, but the wipers are designed for LHD in right hand traffic, much like Type 2s.

Someone has shown me a picture of a Notchback with wipers fitted for left hand traffic or RHD, so I'm fairly intrigued at this point.

Anyone know the answer?
73 de Wayne M5WJF

'76 Type 2 1600 Light Van
'73 Type 3 1600A Variant (UK Reg '92, but age related plate)
'73 Type 4 412 LS Variant (UK Reg '74)

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Editor
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Re: Windscreen Wipers

Post by Editor » 29th August 2014 - 6:25pm

Up to '70 the wipers were handed. After that they were all the same. I've never felt they were 'wrong' for RHD on my '71, as the screen has so much wrap-round, but I don't see there's any choice from '71 anyway. I don't know offhand if the scuttles were different for LHD and RHD. I'm guessing they must have been - intriguing!

This is not correct! Please overlook my ignorance - see below.
Dave.

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Re: Windscreen Wipers

Post by miketyp3 » 29th August 2014 - 9:45pm

Up to 71 they sweep up from the left which to me seems to work better for RHD. Then from 71 the go from the right. There's no diiferance between LHD & RHD though for any given year.

Mike
Mike

64 1500S Notchback - RHD Sunroof
66 1600TL Fastback - Pigalle Interior
67 T346 Karmann Ghia - RHD Sunroof

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Re: Windscreen Wipers

Post by Editor » 30th August 2014 - 12:46am

My mistake - apart from having a right parking '71 and a left parking '70, I had assumed that there were LHD and RHD since the parts book states that for the '67 - '70 models some versions fit models 312, 314, 316, 318, 362, 364, 366, 368 (RHD) and others fit models 311, 313, 315, 317, 361, 363, 365, 367 (LHD).
I'm sure I have a spare labelled 312..., however, I've only been involved with '71 on, and those are all specified for 311-318 and 361-368 (ie all Notch, Fastback, and Variant, so I'm a bit mystified they differentiate LHD and RHD models in the parts book. Presumably there's some subtle difference.
Dave.

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Re: Windscreen Wipers

Post by vwed » 30th August 2014 - 6:22pm

I agree with Mike - the parts book that I have a scan of makes no mention of the models you allude to Dave, nor does the parts book scanned onto the samba.com.
Furthermore I have a period SWF catalogue with incredibly detailed information on everything to do with wipers (armature part numbers, drive cog part numbers etc) and no differentiation is made between LHD and RHD.

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Re: Windscreen Wipers

Post by Editor » 31st August 2014 - 12:09am

Pages 9-71 and 9-72 definitely do give a list of 50 wiper motors marked with different numbers, and certain wiper motors are specified for RHD models (ie even numbered models) and others as odd-numbered models (LHD). This is revision 9 and covers up to '72 model year. That's why there are some wiper motors 'out there' marked with 'RHD' numbers (starting 312). I'll send a couple of photos of the pages by email to show what I mean.

Confusingly (to me at any rate) the part numbers given in the final column are the same for LHD and RHD in any particular year, which ties in with what Mike says, and your info, vwed.

Why then does the VW Parts Book differentiate between RHD and LHD models? Clearly it doesn't matter as the part number is not necessarily the one marked on the motor! How can you know what the part number is if it isn't the one marked on the motor? Hence my confusion!

Does your SWF catalogue give any 312 ... marked motors?

Anyway, thanks for corroboration, but I already trusted what Mike said - just couldn't understand why VW marks motors differently for many RHD and LHD models, then fits the same listed part number to both anyway!
Dave.

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Re: Windscreen Wipers

Post by vwed » 31st August 2014 - 8:18am

Dave, we're talking at cross purposes here!
I'm talking about wiper arms and I presume wireless and Mike were as well.
I agree the motors are in many cases LHD/RHD.
As to your query about the motors in the final column, my interpretation of that is the motors in the left hand column are the original motors that were fitted at the time of production. As time went on VW produced generic replacements for a lot of the motors eg 311 955 111 E which originally had a rather limited application for LHD, but if you look at the parts book in the final column, it can be used to replace a lot of other motors including RHD. This explains why it is the motor one sees most often for sale on sites such as thesamba.com. Bottom line, VW were trying to rationalise the crazy situation of having 50 different wiper motors in the production run of the Type 3 cf the 3 wiper motors that the Bay window bus had in its lifespan.

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Re: Windscreen Wipers

Post by Editor » 31st August 2014 - 1:09pm

I understood the original point was the left-parking on Wireless' '73 seems more appropriate for LHD vehicles. I assumed the motor determines which side the arms park, but I think it's probably where the small arm that goes round is indexed to the shaft. It's not something I've analysed before, with there being no need. Seems '70 and earlier all park on the right, and later ones park on the left. Mike's photos from Holland seem to bear that out.

I presume the wiper-parking side as far as the car is concerned is determined by the position of the holes where the spindles come out of the scuttle. They are offset appropriately. The choice seems to be either an unswept area in the bottom right corner on left-parking, or the top right if they park on the right. I'm not sure one is more desirable than the other.

I still don't understand what differences there have to be in the motors though. The linkages are all the same for any particular year, LHD or RHD, and the same part number is acceptable for a motor replacement! It defies the usual German logic.
I suppose it's like people, some are right-handed and some left. There's no rational reason to it, but if we could replace hands, there would be an infinite choice of size, skin-tone, etc!

My 'modern' Golf sweeps to the right edge of the screen, which leaves no area unswept my side, but the screen doesn't wrap round at all, so there's a thick pillar in the way instead! I prefer the visibility from the Variant any day, and have serious concerns on the 'visibility' from the Golf. It's not just the rear corner pillar that produces a blind spot, it's all the headrests and air-bag filled thick pillars that make it more likely that there will be a collision through lack of visibility at junctions. Primary safety for the occupants (avoiding collisions) is sacrificed to increased secondary safety with air-bags and headrests. OK for the occupants, but not as safe for pedestrians, cyclists and other road-users!
Dave.

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Wireless
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Re: Windscreen Wipers

Post by Wireless » 29th September 2014 - 12:36am

However, my 73 still parks them on the right, when as a RHD they would be better parking on the left.

In recent rainy weather, yes I go out in the rain, its occasionally been heavy and the unswept area of the drivers window has meant that driving has been interesting to say the least, but from what you say Dave, the wipers should park on the left in a 73, mine don't.

Apologies for bringing up a subject leading to the problem of 50 different models of wiper motors in Type 3 history...

BTW, wish me luck, I take my 412 for a MoT tomorrow.
73 de Wayne M5WJF

'76 Type 2 1600 Light Van
'73 Type 3 1600A Variant (UK Reg '92, but age related plate)
'73 Type 4 412 LS Variant (UK Reg '74)

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Wireless
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Re: Windscreen Wipers

Post by Wireless » 29th September 2014 - 12:39am

Oh, good news is the Spares 412 won't be scrapped, I've done a deal with a guy and it looks like he's going to turn it into a Variant Van, alongside a Squareback Van he's already got that he bought from Mr Lord...
73 de Wayne M5WJF

'76 Type 2 1600 Light Van
'73 Type 3 1600A Variant (UK Reg '92, but age related plate)
'73 Type 4 412 LS Variant (UK Reg '74)

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