Going electric ??

Well, there's more taps there than at a plumbers merchant.

From the sound of things I don't think that's big ends, it's too high pitched and metallic and too frequent.

To me that sounds like tappets that are way way too wide open, many. not just one too. The noise reduced as the rpms reduced when the timing was changed.

I was expecting to hear the tap to get louder as you went from one cylinder head to the other, but I didn't, but that's perhaps a limitation of the recording. Was this done cold as the idle seems very high ?

Have you tried the big screwdriver on the cam rocker covers to see if you can identify which of the 4 valves each side ?

I would take this as good news for the moment

Post by **broady_6** » 28th February 2019 - 10:27pm

Much agreed, my thoughts within 3 seconds, "thats too fast for big ends" at that speed its in the valve train. And to further second david. Its a tinny higher pitch noise that sounds like its being amplified by a rocker cover. Id guess you've got a loose tappet.

It could be pure coincidence and unrelated to the garage visit. I will spoil another story here, but last weekend I went to look at muddys fasty, as he said after he fiddled with the timing, it wouldn't run and if it did it would cut out and die. So i was already certain it was nothing to do with the timing. After an inspection and we fired it up, the engine would run for a few seconds, then intermittently splutter and come back to life again and so on. As the injection engine takes it RPM signal from the distributor I checked the plug security and found it to be fairly loose. So cleaned the contacts and nipped the terminals. It was a must more positive fit. The engine now runs much better, (there might still be a little gremlin)

But my point being, Altering the timing didn't really have anything to do with it, it was knocking the plug on the distributor which upset things

Rob 400e · Post by **Rob 400e** » 28th February 2019 - 11:45pm

Thanks guys, I've just watched a vid on you tube regarding detonation and the reasons for it and the results there of. I'm thinking I have a few issues mixture,timing I do use super unleaded so that shouldn't be an issue, but detonation does result in knocking and pinging and I have them both. The pinging is not that audible on the vid. I will have a look at the valves and change the spark plugs.

sparkywig · Post by **sparkywig** » 1st March 2019 - 1:44pm

Just a thought, are the plug leads on correctly?

Rob 400e · Post by **Rob 400e** » 1st March 2019 - 6:15pm

Hi there, yep the plug leads are correct. I'm ready to get on with the valve adjustment I've read the Haynes manual and it's pretty sketchy on valve adjustment so a couple is questions... I've only found one timing mark on the crank pulley TDC I have Tipexed a mark on the pulley at 180 BDC, if I start valve adjustment on number one cylinder TDC then turn pulley 180 degrees anti clockwise to cylinder number two I can then adjust number two and so on for three and four?? When I looked at the valve rockers they all appear to be in the same plane do you just go for it?? Next one that puzzles me with only one Mary on the crank pulley how are you supposed to advance time it to 27 degrees BTDC.

Post by **937carrera** » 1st March 2019 - 6:29pm

The engine should be turned clockwise.

You check the tappets at TDC for each cylinder, i.e when both valves are closed and the burn is taking place

Firing order is 1-4-3-2

I find it easier to just follow the firing order, use TDC every time, rather than try and save pulley turning time.

Cold engine, left overnight

Off the top of my head gap should be 0.006" or 0.15mm, depending on what style of feeler gauges you have.

Double check that no rockers are damaged, the pushrods are seated correctly, there's no broken springs and the bolts holding the rocker assemblies onto the heads are not loose

I don't know Mary, used to know a Mark though

psellcheckers. .... 27 degrees is something else

richtbiscuits · Post by **richtbiscuits** » 1st March 2019 - 7:38pm

I've never found Haynes manuals to be particularly detailed in those areas where you really want a bit more info. I would recommend 'How to keep your Volkswagen alive' by John Muir. It was written back in the day when you could still by a new type 4 and has a wonderful section on tune-up for your air-cooled engine as well as diagnostics and testing of all your FI components. I tuned my engine using it and it went from hunting and rich-running to smooth and delightful. Very satisfying when a bit of tinkering is rewarded with that lovely air-cooled thrum. That said, when type 4 engines run badly they really do let you know, loudly!! I also find static timing is a much easier way to time the type 4 engine and works well. Good luck with the tune-up. Hopefully a thorough tune-up will flag up the cause of your problems and get you winding that window down all the better to listen to that wonderful engine note!

Rob 400e · Post by **Rob 400e** » 1st March 2019 - 8:43pm

Cheers lads, will be getting started tomorrow morning I'm feeling pretty confident however it's a bit awkward on a terraced street facing downhill. There is not a lot of room under a Sedan either. I can't get my head around the timing though , do you put your own marks on the pulley? You need a reference point surely?

Post by **937carrera** » 1st March 2019 - 11:05pm

You only need one reference point - TDC

TDC should be shown by a "0" for zero degrees on the top of the fan which you will see looking down the view hole. You can of course confirm this by putting something down the plug hole that allows you to feel the piston getting to the top of the stroke, i.e TDC. Ideally something stiff yet soft like a thin green garden cane is good for a beginner. Experienced idiots manage with a long thin screwdriver, but we shouldn't really...... you don't want the screwdriver jamming between piston and head.

There should be another mark "Z". This isn't zero degrees, it's German for ZundPunkt - Ignition point

Then further left there should be a line painted red. That's the 27 degrees BTDC maximum advance ignition timing check point.

I really do recommend doing it the long way- it's only 6 full turns of the fan once number 1 is at TDC.

richtbiscuits · Post by **richtbiscuits** » 1st March 2019 - 11:12pm

I had a fan pulley with no markings too and it is more than a little annoying. I set my engine to TDC on no 1 cylinder and took the plug out of no 1 cylinder. With a little work and torchlight I was able to see the piston reach the top of it's stroke. I checked by seeing that both valves on no 1 cylinder were closed. I then marked the fan using the timing notch in the engine case. I set the timing statically which on a W code engine is 5° BTDC, about an inch and a half to the right of TDC on the fan. I worked the actual distance out with good old fashioned school maths. These days I have a different marked fan pulley though, it does make life easier!

Post by **937carrera** » 1st March 2019 - 11:14pm

There's a good picture in this thread, but better understood if you turn it upside down.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw//forum/view ... p?t=658988

Ray Greenwood knows his way round type 4's, I still prefer my way of timing though

Rob 400e · Post by **Rob 400e** » 2nd March 2019 - 4:55pm

Blimey, thank you for the link you just averted a disaster. I've set my valves to the 27 degree mark I'm going to rethink this and sort out the fan shroud. Luckily I didn't attempt to start up. Does anyone fancy a strait swap for a beetle!!!

Post by **937carrera** » 2nd March 2019 - 5:37pm

I thought my words were a pretty good guide, but it was the picture wot saved you was it

Both valves are closed at TDC, tappets are done at TDC, stay away from the red line

Glad we were able to help.

It'll be quicker tomorrow, if it isn't raining

Rob 400e · Post by **Rob 400e** » 2nd March 2019 - 5:50pm

Cheers again fellas, weather permitting I will get on sorting the marks. The shroud has seen better days and the only obvious mark was the 27 degree, with the benefit of the link I will be able to work out the others. Then re do the valves.

Post by **937carrera** » 2nd March 2019 - 6:08pm

Daft question time, given what you said about the shroud.....

You have unscrewed the black plug (with 4 quadrants) on top of the fan housing and are looking down onto the fan and marks aren't you ?.

Rob 400e · Post by **Rob 400e** » 2nd March 2019 - 11:00pm

I have indeed removed the said plug, but the top of the shroud is a bit cruddy I will have to clean it up the best I can. After viewing the link I now have a better idea where I'm looking in regards the other timing marks.

Post by **broady_6** » 3rd March 2019 - 11:32am

Simple fix for the timing, you have got a clear TDC mark? By a timing light like this

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Gunson-77008-T ... 042&chn=ps

Im sure theres are plenty of others which are cheaper.

You dial in the timing you want on the back of the gun, and it auto compensates that number of degrees. You then use it to line up the TDC mark on the engine and boom, you are set are your required number of degrees. Ive have mine compared against two sets of calibrated equipment and its accurate to +/- 0.5 degree, which is ample of a standard road plodder

Post by **937carrera** » 3rd March 2019 - 12:32pm

All good stuff, but he's got to finish the tappets first

Post by **broady_6** » 3rd March 2019 - 12:42pm

Aye, but I had nothing to contribute, you'd all covered that very nicely and I was feeling left out

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