Shocks

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Curtispwalsh12
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Joined: 20th July 2019 - 12:18am

Shocks

Post by Curtispwalsh12 » 12th July 2020 - 7:26pm

Hi folks,

Just wondering what shocks people are using?
I’ve just fitted some 1” dropped adjustable spring plates and I’m now getting a bit of tyre rubbing on bumps and round corners. Didn’t happen when it was dropped on the original spring plates but it did have quite a bit more camber!
I’m thinking stiffer shock might help?

Many thanks

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broady_6
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Re: Shocks

Post by broady_6 » 12th July 2020 - 9:17pm

Hello,

The shock absorber is there to do what is describes, absorb shocks. To dampen out the harshness of the road surface. Its not really the thing you should changing to alter the travel. Spring rates more readily do that. But would still point the ride.

In short I wouldnt spoil the ride with a change of shock absorber, id be looking at having the wheel arches rolled if you have having rubbing issues.
The sultan of swing

Curtispwalsh12
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Joined: 20th July 2019 - 12:18am

Re: Shocks

Post by Curtispwalsh12 » 13th July 2020 - 9:50am

Thanks Broady,

It seems to be on the inner arch.
I guess I could lift it slightly and see what happens?

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broady_6
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Re: Shocks

Post by broady_6 » 13th July 2020 - 10:01am

if its on the inner arch, would a thin wheel spacer make the difference?

Have you had a 4 wheel alignment done since the work was carried out?
The sultan of swing

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937carrera
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Re: Shocks

Post by 937carrera » 13th July 2020 - 10:39am

When you lowered the ride height you changed the camber......... so it needs to be adjusted again. Rear toe in will also have changed.

It will have increased -ve camber so the wheels either lean more if you had -ve camber, or as this is a type 3 and may have +ve camber, you will have lost some of that +ve camber

Shock absorbers don't change ride height, unless they are self levelling ones.
David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

Curtispwalsh12
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Joined: 20th July 2019 - 12:18am

Re: Shocks

Post by Curtispwalsh12 » 13th July 2020 - 9:09pm

I’ve had a look today and as far as I can work out it’s actually the the outer edge of the tyre?

I’ve lost quite a bit of camber and what with the off set of the wheel (Gasburners) i guess it’s made them tighter on the arch then before.

Wheel alignment is next on the list

Curtispwalsh12
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Re: Shocks

Post by Curtispwalsh12 » 13th July 2020 - 9:10pm

When I say outer edge I don’t mean the profile I mean the edge of the tread

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broady_6
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Re: Shocks

Post by broady_6 » 14th July 2020 - 12:20am

Yeah, that's what I was eluding too with the arch rolling. its pretty common for the outer edge of the tyre to rub once the rear suspension is played with.

One rather important question, what car are we talking about?
The sultan of swing

Curtispwalsh12
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Joined: 20th July 2019 - 12:18am

Re: Shocks

Post by Curtispwalsh12 » 17th July 2020 - 9:50am

broady_6 wrote:
14th July 2020 - 12:20am
Yeah, that's what I was eluding too with the arch rolling. its pretty common for the outer edge of the tyre to rub once the rear suspension is played with.

One rather important question, what car are we talking about?
Sorry for the delay I’ve slowly been going insane in my garage!

Ok it’s a 1967 UK Squareback.

The issue I’m having now is it’s got sag on the drivers side.
To get it sitting level the grub on the adjuster was wound pretty much all the way up which I know isn’t good so I’ve been trying to do a little spline adjustment on that side so I can get the grubs as even as I can (no point having adjusters if they can’t adjust right) I just can’t seem to get it near to level as I can??
Do you think it’s the torsion bar, if so how would I know??

Thanks again for all the help folks

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jmarkha1
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Re: Shocks

Post by jmarkha1 » 17th July 2020 - 4:07pm

sounds like you need to move the inner and outer splines to get a little more lift and reduce the grub screw extension - then youll have some wiggle room when levelling the car out. There is a diagram online that tells you how many inner and outer splines are needed to get lift / drop -
The variant Project

Curtispwalsh12
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Re: Shocks

Post by Curtispwalsh12 » 17th July 2020 - 6:04pm

jmarkha1 wrote:
17th July 2020 - 4:07pm
sounds like you need to move the inner and outer splines to get a little more lift and reduce the grub screw extension - then youll have some wiggle room when levelling the car out. There is a diagram online that tells you how many inner and outer splines are needed to get lift / drop -
Sorted!! Did some spline adjustments and now it’s pretty spot on.
Still think I have a funny torsion bar but that can be a winter job

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937carrera
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Re: Shocks

Post by 937carrera » 17th July 2020 - 6:51pm

Did you remove the bar and inspect it ?

Generally speaking torsion bars are well protected from corrosion, but if they do get rust in they can get weak,
David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

Curtispwalsh12
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Re: Shocks

Post by Curtispwalsh12 » 18th July 2020 - 12:12pm

937carrera wrote:
17th July 2020 - 6:51pm
Did you remove the bar and inspect it ?

Generally speaking torsion bars are well protected from corrosion, but if they do get rust in they can get weak,
Yeah I took it out and it looks fine. Bit of dirt but no cracks in the paint or anything like that?

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broady_6
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Re: Shocks

Post by broady_6 » 18th July 2020 - 12:30pm

What makes you think you have a "funny" torsion bar? As long as the red paint on the bar is ok, then it wont be suffering. never hurts to cover it in grease too.

I have more questions, but once I know what you think the issue is, I can offer more.
The sultan of swing

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937carrera
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Re: Shocks

Post by 937carrera » 18th July 2020 - 12:31pm

Sound like it was just badly adjusted before then :thumbsup:
David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

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937carrera
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Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Shocks

Post by 937carrera » 18th July 2020 - 12:46pm

Man walks into a torsion bar, says can I have some spring water.

Well, it's better than swearing. That type of funny ?

I'll get me coat....
David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

Curtispwalsh12
Posts: 24
Joined: 20th July 2019 - 12:18am

Re: Shocks

Post by Curtispwalsh12 » 19th July 2020 - 8:27pm

broady_6 wrote:
18th July 2020 - 12:30pm
What makes you think you have a "funny" torsion bar? As long as the red paint on the bar is ok, then it wont be suffering. never hurts to cover it in grease too.

I have more questions, but once I know what you think the issue is, I can offer more.

I had to move it 2 outer splines to get it sitting equal with the passenger side???
Maybe I’m just to much of a perfectionist and figured they would both be even when I put the new spring plates on?

Curtispwalsh12
Posts: 24
Joined: 20th July 2019 - 12:18am

Re: Shocks

Post by Curtispwalsh12 » 19th July 2020 - 8:28pm

937carrera wrote:
18th July 2020 - 12:46pm
Man walks into a torsion bar, says can I have some spring water.

Well, it's better than swearing. That type of funny ?

I'll get me coat....

:lol: :lol:

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broady_6
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Re: Shocks

Post by broady_6 » 19th July 2020 - 9:03pm

Curtispwalsh12 wrote:
19th July 2020 - 8:27pm
broady_6 wrote:
18th July 2020 - 12:30pm
What makes you think you have a "funny" torsion bar? As long as the red paint on the bar is ok, then it wont be suffering. never hurts to cover it in grease too.

I have more questions, but once I know what you think the issue is, I can offer more.

I had to move it 2 outer splines to get it sitting equal with the passenger side???
Maybe I’m just to much of a perfectionist and figured they would both be even when I put the new spring plates on?

But youre assuming that it wasnt out of line before hand. People have messed about with this cars for more than 40 years. It is more likely than not, that someone has fiddled with them and got them out of sync. Because there is a different number of inner and outter splines it is very easy to your self in a pickle when working on these.

There at 40 splines on the inner end and 44 on the outter end. In terms of degrees its 9degrees per spline inner end and 8degrees 10 minutes outter end. So if you turned the inner end 1 spling clockwise and the outter end anti clockwise 1 spline you get a drop/raise of 50 minutes. So if someone has indexed one bar around a degree or two it will be lower.

If you had a weak bar then indexing it to match the other side wouldnt help, because as soon as you put the weight back on it, it would sag again.

A further thought, have you checked the front? If the front bars arent indexed the same then one side will be weaker than the other which means the rear will have to do more work and end up sat lower.
The sultan of swing

Curtispwalsh12
Posts: 24
Joined: 20th July 2019 - 12:18am

Re: Shocks

Post by Curtispwalsh12 » 22nd July 2020 - 3:05pm

broady_6 wrote:
19th July 2020 - 9:03pm
Curtispwalsh12 wrote:
19th July 2020 - 8:27pm
broady_6 wrote:
18th July 2020 - 12:30pm
What makes you think you have a "funny" torsion bar? As long as the red paint on the bar is ok, then it wont be suffering. never hurts to cover it in grease too.

I have more questions, but once I know what you think the issue is, I can offer more.

I had to move it 2 outer splines to get it sitting equal with the passenger side???
Maybe I’m just to much of a perfectionist and figured they would both be even when I put the new spring plates on?

But youre assuming that it wasnt out of line before hand. People have messed about with this cars for more than 40 years. It is more likely than not, that someone has fiddled with them and got them out of sync. Because there is a different number of inner and outter splines it is very easy to your self in a pickle when working on these.

There at 40 splines on the inner end and 44 on the outter end. In terms of degrees its 9degrees per spline inner end and 8degrees 10 minutes outter end. So if you turned the inner end 1 spling clockwise and the outter end anti clockwise 1 spline you get a drop/raise of 50 minutes. So if someone has indexed one bar around a degree or two it will be lower.

If you had a weak bar then indexing it to match the other side wouldnt help, because as soon as you put the weight back on it, it would sag again.

A further thought, have you checked the front? If the front bars arent indexed the same then one side will be weaker than the other which means the rear will have to do more work and end up sat lower.
Based on how the car was built previous to me owning it I wouldn’t be surprised if the front is out as well. Everything seems to have been done half arsed, like they’ve done bits to make it look ok but dig deeper and it’s all abit bodged.
It had an MG rear bumper when I first got it!!!!! The beading is beetle beading and not type 3, see all abit half arsed!!
Do you know anyone local to Essex that is clued up on type 3s? I’m learning but still not 100% confident. I took the aftermarket exhaust off last night to put an original one I found on it and one side was held on with the original stud and then just a random bolt so currently waiting for a delivery of studs!

Thanks again for all your help guys you have been awesome!

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