411le stuck on high beam?

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jonny rock
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411le stuck on high beam?

Post by jonny rock » 19th May 2014 - 12:13pm

As subject line....
After a month or so of chasing electrical faults I am only one problem away from being sorted.
My lights are stuck on high beam. Checked contacts on stalk and all good.
Thinking it may be the reply but wanted to ask if this has happened to anyone else and how you fixed it.
Thanks in advance, Cheers Jon

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937carrera
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Re: 411le stuck on high beam?

Post by 937carrera » 19th May 2014 - 8:02pm

That doesn't sound right for a number of reasons, do you have access to a multimeter and wiring diagrams (there are some on the site) ?

It seems very strange because the headlamps / dip are on 4 separate fuses, so you could always remove the fuses one by one to confirm which fuses are carrying current. The way the wiring works is that terminal 56 of the light switch becomes live when the headlights are switched on. That current then feeds the relay on terminal 56 and the flasher stalk switches between main beam / dip. You should see the voltage change from terminal 56a to terminal 56b on the relay as the flash is operated.

Hope that helps
David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

jonny rock
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Re: 411le stuck on high beam?

Post by jonny rock » 20th May 2014 - 9:35am

Hi, thanks for reply.
I have checked and cleaned all fuses and mounts. Will remove one by one and check for current.

Will do as you suggest and test voltage on terminal 56a and 56b.

Just to be clear. You are referring to the Actual light switch gubbins in the dash behind the light pull switch.

I'm not that electrical minded so sort of stumble about.

The stalk just got stuck on high beam when I was making sure everything was working ok. But believe problem is elsewhere. Not stalk.
Contacts on stalk are fine and are touching No reason for it, turn my lights on and they are on high beam...!

Thanks, will update as soon as.

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CLIFFORD8003
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Re: 411le stuck on high beam?

Post by CLIFFORD8003 » 20th May 2014 - 11:58am

I had the same problem on my 411 and it was a duff relay which sat behind the fuse box. if you want one let me know and i will go into the garage for one. Cheers Cliff.
CLIFFORD8003

jonny rock
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Re: 411le stuck on high beam?

Post by jonny rock » 20th May 2014 - 12:51pm

Hi Cliff, thanks very much. Will let you know.
Need to find sometime later to have a fiddle.
Cheers, Jon

jonny rock
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Re: 411le stuck on high beam?

Post by jonny rock » 20th May 2014 - 4:23pm

up date.

So it seems this relay maybe duff.

http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa3 ... 160333.jpg
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa3 ... 160317.jpg

(Cliff is this the same one you may have?)

If I push it gently either way when connected to fuse board it wants to work and makes a clicking sound but not a proper click, more of a cough, if that makes sense. If I do nothing there is no contact. Checked wiring on top of fuse board where this relay connects and seems ok.
So, is it the wiring or the relay?

Opened up relay and there is some corrosion in there.

What do you good people suggest? check fuse board wiring more or try another relay.

Many thanks, Jon

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Editor
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Re: 411le stuck on high beam?

Post by Editor » 20th May 2014 - 11:16pm

They do fail - often in the mode you describe, ie won't change to the other state when energised by the dipswitch input. Corrosion inside too?.... I wouldn't bother messing with the dash wiring, just change the relay! If you want to play with anything, have a go at spraying some switch cleaner and make sure the contacts are clean. When I had this happen, the copper spring strip had fatigued, which is incurable.
Dave.

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937carrera
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Re: 411le stuck on high beam?

Post by 937carrera » 20th May 2014 - 11:41pm

Those pictures don't look like a headlight main/dip relay to me. Look at the terminal numbers, you have 31, 49 and 49a which makes that the indicator flasher relay I believe.

The headlight relay should have terminals 30, 56, 56a and 56b and looks like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vw-412-Thing- ... 324wt_1184

On this occasion I'm trying to help by reading the wiring diagrams, Editor and others will just know what the issue is and what the components look like
David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

jonny rock
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Re: 411le stuck on high beam?

Post by jonny rock » 21st May 2014 - 9:27am

Hi Dave, thanks for your reply. Tend to agree with you. Will source a replacement. I did try and clean up the internals, but as you say, if its broken down there is probably no way to repair.

David, (937carrera) your sort of right. The unit is a double relay.( correct if wrong.) One for the indicators and one for the dip/high beam. See photo.

http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa3 ... 091335.jpg

So on the hunt, anyone got a spare I could buy?

Cheers, Jon

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937carrera
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Re: 411le stuck on high beam?

Post by 937carrera » 21st May 2014 - 9:51am

I don't believe they are a combined relay. Have you looked at this ? http://www.hallvw.clara.net/wire411US72-.htm

The relays are separate, reference J and J2 I believe on that wiring diagram. I have been using some later current flow diagrams as well which are easier to read but not on the site.
David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

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CLIFFORD8003
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Re: 411le stuck on high beam?

Post by CLIFFORD8003 » 21st May 2014 - 11:25am

The pictures of the relay which is for the indicators, the headlamp relay is different, i should have both relays here, i will go and check in the garage now and get back to you, what year is your 411!
Cheers Cliff.
CLIFFORD8003

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Re: 411le stuck on high beam?

Post by CLIFFORD8003 » 21st May 2014 - 12:09pm

You have a pm.
Cheers Cliff.
CLIFFORD8003

jonny rock
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Re: 411le stuck on high beam?

Post by jonny rock » 21st May 2014 - 4:07pm

Hi David, thanks. With you now.


''I don't believe they are a combined relay. Have you looked at this ? http://www.hallvw.clara.net/wire411US72-.htm

The relays are separate, reference J and J2 I believe on that wiring diagram. I have been using some later current flow diagrams as well which are easier to read but not on the site.''


Ok so its the indicator flasher unit that's kippered, Cliff has one for me. Thank you.

So back to the original problem with my dip/main which is where all this started.

If I wiggle this relay(flasher unit) it affects my dip/main beam operation. It works or is trying to work.
Is this right, can that happen. Are they connected?

Just need some clarification really before I sink in to the hole of confusion :lol:


Thanks, Jon

jonny rock
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Location: Walsall

Re: 411le stuck on high beam?

Post by jonny rock » 21st May 2014 - 5:21pm

Ok so have had a bit of time to check stuff.

Stand down on the dip/main beam problem.

Had a good look at rear of the fuse box and discovered a frayed wire up in the dash, running to the big silver relay, which I now know is for the lights.
Chopped the bad out and replaced, obviously been there awhile and probably pure coincidence that the flasher relay went as well.

So to conclude,

Cliff is supplying me with a flasher relay. Check.
Dip/main beam problem sorted. Check.

Oh for the love of blue beards whiskers, please let that be it for a while. I need to drive my car!

Thanks to all of you who got involved, its been emotional.

Cliff, when you can buddy. Sent you my details.

Many thanks, a happy Jon. :D

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937carrera
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Re: 411le stuck on high beam?

Post by 937carrera » 21st May 2014 - 5:58pm

It's always nice to hear a happy ending :), good luck
David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

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Editor
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Re: 411le stuck on high beam?

Post by Editor » 21st May 2014 - 9:44pm

As they say, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger! Well done.
Dave.

jonny rock
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Re: 411le stuck on high beam?

Post by jonny rock » 21st May 2014 - 10:03pm

Thanks chaps. Keep calm and carry on.........

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