A new 412 owner

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Kharon8
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A new 412 owner

Post by Kharon8 » 23rd November 2014 - 4:54am

I bought a '74 412 Automatic few weeks ago and I've used some of my time since for joining all related forums as there aren't many, even globally.

Image

More in:
http://kharon.suomiforum.com/www/412/

This car is still a project car, but it moves and is inspected so I could drive it if it wasn't winter here in North (I live in Finland) and we just got few inches of snow, first real snow in this winter.

Snow means salted roads and salt is too much for old VW (owner), so it's stored in a barn for winter and not much will happen during the winter.

When the spring comes (somewhere in May here) I'll have to repaint at least the fenders (possibly whole car), fix the missing trim pieces and rebuild most of the interior: Floor mats etc. are missing and/or worn to pieces. Floor mat rubbers mostly do exist so it might be possible to remove and re-use those.

This car has engine which has dual carbs but, according to papers, is too small for a 412, only 1680cc. Needs to be checked, but I'd guess an engine swap from a 411. Finding a decent/repairable 412 engine might be a challenge.

Anyway, it's an old police car from Sweden and it has an automatic gearbox, a real rarity here in Finland and not too common anywhere.

Also no-one really wanted to buy it here: It was for sale already in May and price was dropping from time to time during summer until it was bearable for me in late October and I bought it.

We'll see how much trouble I got with it, no way to know yet.

This car will also be a long-term project like my type34: Spare parts are hard to find and full-blown restoration costs a lot of money.

Having types 1 to 4 (or some variation) isn't an accident, but a goal for me and that's reached now. Fixing the 412 (up to pretty, if possible) and getting the Type34 to street legal & registered are next goals: Owning something you can't drive isn't really the idea in a car.
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Wireless
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Re: A new 412 owner

Post by Wireless » 28th November 2014 - 6:05pm

I'm nearly there, a 76 T2c, 73 T36, 2x 73 T46.

I did own a T1 68 VW 1500 until my son wrote it off after restoration within 1 month of it being put on the road...it's a pain I still carry with me every day.

Ho hum...
73 de Wayne M5WJF

'76 Type 2 1600 Light Van
'73 Type 3 1600A Variant (UK Reg '92, but age related plate)
'73 Type 4 412 LS Variant (UK Reg '74)

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Re: A new 412 owner

Post by shawn71 » 28th November 2014 - 9:28pm

I'd love to have one of each as well. We currently have '71Beetle, '78 late bay and '70 411LE 2 door sedan.
Just need a Type 3
'70VW 411LE 2 Door Saloon, '71 Beetle and '78 Late bay

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Re: A new 412 owner

Post by Kharon8 » 28th November 2014 - 10:17pm

shawn71 wrote:I'd love to have one of each as well. We currently have '71Beetle, '78 late bay and '70 411LE 2 door sedan.
Just need a Type 3
I've found that car themselves aren't too expensive (esp. when they aren't finished like this 412) if you aren't in a hurry to buy. Having a place to store them is another thing.

I've rented a section from a barn and it does the job but costs about 100 euros per car per year and it's in the middle of the nowhere. Not expensive per se but many cars and many years, it accumulates.
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Re: A new 412 owner

Post by Kharon8 » 28th November 2014 - 10:44pm

Wireless wrote:I'm nearly there, a 76 T2c, 73 T36, 2x 73 T46.

I did own a T1 68 VW 1500 until my son wrote it off after restoration within 1 month of it being put on the road...it's a pain I still carry with me every day.
Ouch!

I lent my daily driver (a Seat Ibiza at that point) to a friend and he totalled it. No major damage to himself and he paid the resale value for the car to me, but the effort put into repairs and maintenance was quite effectively lost. Pain for basically worthless car (but it was my car) is still there, almost 10 years later.

So we've learnt:
Nephews learnt to drive with my mom's old Passat (-90 wagon she's not driving anymore), there's not too much effort put into it, just a daily beater. So far it has survived and as the younger nephew is now 23, it might survive further. Especially as I've been maintaining it. Mom likes it when it still runs and she pays all the major bills so suits me. She's so happy every year I call her and tell it's passed inspection again.

Once it begins to need rust repairs and/or engine overhaul so much it won't pass inspection, we'll disassemble it, sell the parts we can and crush the rest. Re-use and recycle.
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Re: A new 412 owner

Post by pmacs49 » 1st April 2015 - 9:10am

Love to have a type 3,
Currently have T1 beetle, T2 latebay type4

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Re: A new 412 owner

Post by Kharon8 » 13th April 2015 - 10:44pm

IMHO fastbacks are quite cheap in Sweden and squarebacks aren' too expensive either, a friend of mine bought slightly rusty -65 squareback with 500 euros.

It had some rust problems but nothing major.

Of course the steering is on wrong side and you'd need to go older cars to have correct ones: Sweden swapped from left hand traffic to right hand traffic in 1967.

But: I checked blocket.se and no VWs with left hand drive, blah. Japanese imports and UK imports are there but no VWs. It is possible that they didn't import left hand models into Sweden at all which kind of ruins the idea.

Why did I think so?

Here's an example:
http://www.blocket.se/jamtland/VW_Typ3_ ... ?ca=10&w=3

A '65 1500 at ~1500 euros? Who can not buy that? (I can as I've run out of storage and you can't leave cars like this out for winter.)

(Many swedes speak fluent english, wink wink :) )
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Re: A new 412 owner

Post by 937carrera » 14th April 2015 - 12:19am

Kharon8 wrote: (Many swedes speak fluent english, wink wink :) )
and even a few English speak Swedish., wink wink :)

I was always amazed at the condition of many of the older cars when I lived there, lot's of old Volvo PV544's etc
David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

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Re: A new 412 owner

Post by Kharon8 » 17th June 2015 - 7:50pm

Summer is finally here and I drove my new old car to home in Sunday, 570km/360 miles.

Engine and gearbox was working fine but I was missing some luxuries like heating (aux heater is out of car and most of the hoses aren't there yet) and it was only 11C/50F and it was raining all the way. I had to stop few times to have hot cocoa and it still took about 7 hours as the car had been standing several years and the tyres weren't even near round, so the maximum speed was like 90km/h/55mph, higher than that and whole car was shaking too much.

Some part stash unloading on the way (both ways) and total trip time (both ways) of 15 hours.

On Tuesday we had a warmer weather and I did a test drive, shaking is not as bad as earlier and got it up to 120km/h/75mph. Anyway, I decided to buy new tyres, the old ones aren't too good, worn and three different brands.

Also discussed with a friend, he promised to do some cosmetic work on the body: Sand blast & paint some rust spots, fix few dents and see if he can do something to the paint. Also paints the front fenders to green.

The goal for now is a car I can keep outside whole summer without further rusting and a '20 feeter' as they say: looks good from 20 feet away.

But the question: Which green this is, as VW (them bastards) had _16 different greens_ in 1974 alone?

I know have a spray can of Sumatra Green (leftovers from my '74 bus) but I haven't found it yet. If I find it I'll test it to somewhere to see if it's the same or at least near enough.

Recent pics of the car will follow.

Also, any ideas what kind of floor carpeting this car had?

I've bunch of small pieces of yellow carpet and I've no idea how those are arranged.

And still one: Any sources for "Automatic" text for the hood?
(like this: http://www.history-of-cars.com/images/v ... 12-023.jpg)
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Re: A new 412 owner

Post by 937carrera » 17th June 2015 - 11:16pm

Kharon8 wrote:But the question: Which green this is, as VW (them bastards) had _16 different greens_ in 1974 alone?

I know have a spray can of Sumatra Green (leftovers from my '74 bus) but I haven't found it yet. If I find it I'll test it to somewhere to see if it's the same or at least near enough.
I have looked at my '73 and '74 brochures and think your car is a '73 car, Turquoise Green, paint code 8282. You can check the paint code from the plate on the front of the luggage compartment, and also work out the build date from the other plate that's there.
David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

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Re: A new 412 owner

Post by Kharon8 » 18th June 2015 - 9:25am

Thanks for the info, 937carrera.

I also should have put VIN here, if I decode it correctly, it says this is a '74, being 2424004...

Front end has had major repairs (fenders from struts forward, inner & outer, are from spare part car) so many original items are missing or just plain wrong.

Also means there's no vin-plate now. I've to ask if it still exists somewhere.
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Re: A new 412 owner

Post by Kharon8 » 19th June 2015 - 6:44pm

Hello people, some new pics taken today and those show the first owner, "Rikspolisstyrelsen", something like state police management and brake booster (like Swedish cars had).
[img]http://kharon.suomiforum.com/www/412/IMG_3503.jpg[/img]

Seats look like original but really? No idea.
http://kharon.suomiforum.com/www/412/IMG_3505.jpg
http://kharon.suomiforum.com/www/412/IMG_3506.jpg

Brake booster
http://kharon.suomiforum.com/www/412/IMG_3507.jpg

AFAIK the VIN-plate should be around here?
http://kharon.suomiforum.com/www/412/IMG_3508.jpg

As you can see the trunk is missing all carpeting so some pictures of original looks are appreciated.

On the other hand, there's not much on the floors either
http://kharon.suomiforum.com/www/412/IMG_3504.jpg

Also some other new pics, here
http://kharon.suomiforum.com/www/412/
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Re: A new 412 owner

Post by Editor » 20th June 2015 - 12:57pm

The colour looks more like Turquoise metallic (Turkis) L95B to me.
http://home.clara.net/hallvw/vwpaint.htm shows the colours reasonably accurately.

That would mean the chassis number should start 413 for a '73 model.
I don't think any 74 Type 4 green looked like that.
Dave.

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Re: A new 412 owner

Post by 937carrera » 21st June 2015 - 11:20am

I'm back in front of my computer instead of a phone and have looked at the photos, including some of the others in your gallery.

"Styrelsen" generally means board / management commmittee so having looked at the additional owners plate (not sure where that has been fixed)
Image
I think that the 412 was originally used by the police in Piteå in northern Sweden.

Paint colour wise both editor and I think it's the same colour (my code was from the brochure, not the actual paint code), so if it's a '74 shell, perhaps the police had a special order with VW for that colour, alongside the non standard brake booster ??

I don't have any photos of the luggage compartment at the moment, will try and get one for you. It's normally black carpet with a vinyl base.

The seats are original in design, but the covering on the front is certainly not, they have been recovered at some point. The beige cards and leather on the rear look original but a lighter brown than I would have expected
David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

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Re: A new 412 owner

Post by Kharon8 » 21st June 2015 - 11:26am

Hello Dave!

I'll go and meet a pro painter later (as he'll paint the fenders to green anyway) and we'll see what he says.

My camera isn't too good at representing colours as they really are so the pics aren't too good for anything but details.

Anyway, having only two or three options for green is much, much better than a dozen and helps a lot, thanks for help to all.
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Re: A new 412 owner

Post by Kharon8 » 21st June 2015 - 11:39am

937carrera wrote: Paint colour wise both editor and I think it's the same colour (my code was from the brochure, not the actual paint code), so if it's a '74 shell, perhaps the police had a special order with VW for that colour, alongside the non standard brake booster ??

I don't have any photos of the luggage compartment at the moment, will try and get one for you. It's normally black carpet with a vinyl base.

The seats are original in design, but the covering on the front is certainly not, they have been recovered at some point. The beige cards and leather on the rear look original but a lighter brown than I would have expected
Yes, I thought the same: Someone has had a new covering made by using old as a model. A good copy but not the same as factory used. For me those are good enough, so no worries for now. Well, police use tends to wear things down fast and they've had a pro in-house.

Thanks for the pics: I got some from brochures I got from Lahti411 (some in Finnish!) and basic pictures of the carpeting pieces from a third person via Lahti411: The carpeting has so many parts and it's quite complicated.

The brake booster was stock in Sweden for some reason. I do know that they had gasoline heater also as stock for Beetles so Swedish importer was a picky company who wanted only the best. And had money to cover the expenses.
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Re: A new 412 owner

Post by 937carrera » 21st June 2015 - 6:43pm

Here's a couple of photos for you, sorry they are not the greatest quality - carpet on the petrol tank, bulkhead and inner wings, vinyl base mounted on cardboard for the floor covering the spare wheel well. Ignore the water tank on the left of the picture - that's the reservoir for the rear wash wipe fitted by a previous owner

Image

Image
Last edited by 937carrera on 9th February 2018 - 1:24pm, edited 1 time in total.
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1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

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Re: A new 412 owner

Post by Kharon8 » 23rd June 2015 - 7:34pm

937carrera wrote:Here's a couple of photos for you, sorry they are not the greatest quality - carpet on the petrol tank, bulkhead and inner wings, vinyl base mounted on cardboard for the floor covering the spare wheel well. Ignore the water tank on the left of the picture - that's the reservoir for the rear wash wipe fitted by a previous owner
Thanks a lot!

And now I feel that knowledge increases pain again, I'm missing all of those pieces.

I think I'll fabricate something out of sound insulator, thin plywood to cover the spare wheel well and thin, cheap black carpet. Not original but better than nothing and the pic show the general appearance, I can go with that. New carpets always look good even if the fit isn't perfect.

Something positive too, I bought new hubcaps. Cheap knock offs, but 17e/piece wasn't too bad and changes the looks a lot. (Rims need sandblasting and paint, next winter tasks.)

Then I realized that VW Classic is also selling these hubcaps, factory quality but the price was quite good too, 50e/piece.

We'll see if these cheap ones are really bad and rust in an year.
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Re: A new 412 owner

Post by Kharon8 » 30th June 2015 - 12:06pm

Small setback: I thought that 'automatic' badge from type 3 is the same as in 412 so I bought one from thesamba.

Got it today and it's way too long, at least 2 inches and different mounting points too. Also the pins on the badge are too thin for the (plastic) badgeholders. So not correct badge.

Now I'm stumped: What kind of badge it should have or is there several types of 'automatic' badges for type3?

I found an image:
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1077059.jpg

And it looks the same I have. Yet it doesn't fit: Mystery intensifies.
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Re: A new 412 owner

Post by Kharon8 » 1st July 2015 - 10:26pm

I'll reply to myself, found a discussion about these badges and there are several of them (from thesamba, not a surprise):

68vwfasty Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:00 pm
According to the parts book - (if this helps)

311853675
Name "Automatic"
from Ch. No. 318 015 226 to 318 500 000

311 853675 A
Name "Automatic"
from Ch. No. 319 000 001

361 853675
Name "Automatic"
from Ch. No. 368 015 226 to 368 500 000

411 853 675
Name "Automatic"
from Ch. ·No. 369 000 001

Fellow 4-owners tell me it's the last one I want. I'm assuming they are correct.

Not surprisingly none for sale (at least with that number) on ebay or anywhere else google can find.

But some progress: Got correct paint today and painted fenders to green, overall looks is much better. Not too shiny as it was just spray paint (albeit proper car paint) and I'm not a good painter, but much better than worn gold.

Tomorrow some sand blasting (spot blaster, very handy for small areas) to paint bubbles (rust underneath) & other minor rusty areas and some green paint to those also. I had two spray cans and about half a liter /quart in a can, mostly for floor which can be painted with a brush.

New tyres too as old ones weren't round (quite permanently, it seems), not fun to drive fast.

Friday evening is the cruising night here in Helsinki, 412 has to be ... ummm ... not pretty ... but at least bearable. ;)
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Re: A new 412 owner

Post by 937carrera » 1st July 2015 - 10:49pm

I would agree that its the 411 part number than you need - here are a couple of links to photos that show the difference between type 3 and 4 auto badges.

http://germancarsforsaleblog.com/1973-v ... quareback/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/rutgerkappes/4455214146/

Out of interest, what did you decide was the correct paint colour for your car - new photos are most welcome :)
David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

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Re: A new 412 owner

Post by Kharon8 » 2nd July 2015 - 1:04pm

Thanks for the pics. I got the badge which looks the same as in the first picture but there's at least two versions of that too: One with thin stud and one with thick studs. Also it's too long for the holes in the hood.

But the one in the latter picture might be correct, at least it looks smaller. (As a side note: Pictures of a rear end of a 411/412 sedan automatic aren't easy to find ... I couldn't find any.)

I went with tropical green (L60A) and it pretty much looks the same as the rest of the car, just new and not faded.

I'll take new pics when I get the small rust spots painted, chromes polished and such, make-up basically as the correct method would be sanding/blasting whole car to bare metal and start from there.

Too much work to this point (two other projects going on) so make-up will do for now.

It ought to be ready by tomorrow evening, we'll see what happens.
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Re: A new 412 owner

Post by Kharon8 » 4th July 2015 - 3:20pm

All the new pics (this was a very busy week for me) are on the page but here's an teaser:
http://kharon.suomiforum.com/www/412/IMG_3566.jpg

Much, much better with green fenders and most of the other dings and rust spots covered in green paint. :)

Some of those I sand blasted (some of the paint bubbles were hiding a hole, a surprise?) and some just painted over with acid primer and green paint (PPG L60A, but still from spray can). At least it should keep the rust off for a while.

I also ordered the trim attachment parts so I can attach the rear door trim back (it's now in the trunk).

I'll also drill the holes for the front fender trim as I have one (and the other is missing). The fender doesn't have holes yet as it's from a spare part car and didn't originally have them.

We (with couple of other car hobbyists) were also pondering how to fix many (semi)broken cardboard parts the car has and so far the best method is light fiberglass, applied to back side. either directly to cardboard or just using carboard as a mould, I haven't decided yet.

Other and/or better ideas ar of course welcome.

Also a quiz:
Image

Guess the time? (Taken yesterday in Helsinki, 60th lat. North.)
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Re: A new 412 owner

Post by 937carrera » 4th July 2015 - 9:50pm

It looks a different colour in those pictures, much darker and not metallic !

For the cardboard repair (perhaps the panel under the steering wheel), perhaps some fine wire mesh, to which fibreglass resin can be added might be enough to provide the right stiffness ??

I'll play your game on the time

There are long shadows in one of the pictures, so either early in the morning or late at night. I'll assume late at night.

When I lived in Sweden it used to get dark (well nearly) at 23:30, you're around 10 degrees further east, so make that 00:10, but Finland is another hour ahead so it should be dark at around 23:10. It is still quite bright so I'll guess 22:30.

Ever since I lived in Sweden I don't think we have late summer nights in England any more :(
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Re: A new 412 owner

Post by 937carrera » 5th July 2015 - 10:05pm

You might find this link to a German brochure for the 1974 model year useful

http://www.volkswagen-classic.de/docume ... 8.1973.pdf

Looks like Tropical Green is the right colour, and the interior could have been black, bamboo or mocca originally.

Nice to see some of the other cars you have / have owned previously :)
David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

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