1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

For Type 3 and 4 restoration projects, interesting history, adventure trips etc
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purplepeter
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by purplepeter » 24th December 2017 - 12:56pm

I work on the theory that vw wouldn't have put it in if it wasn't needed- it adds a bit of extra rigidity

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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 24th December 2017 - 6:33pm

I hadn't thought in terms on structural. My thoughts were along the line of a heat deflector to stop the sill skin from getting too hot and damaging the paint on the outside, or inducing lots of lovely damp and rotting it through quicker. Its something I will have to ponder over the next couple of days while im drunk on the sofa! Cheers for starting the cogs turning though sir, Ive learnt much about welding and metallurgy in my years so im hacking out all the bad or ott repairs of the past and trying to improve upon the VW design at the same time. Removing as may areas of multiple layers as I can. If anyone else has comments please weigh in as i like data gathering.

On the topic of advice, im restructuring the inner wing and looking and other cars photos for reference and notice this panel mounted on the inner wing. What does/did it do? Whys it there? ect ect will i die with out one?

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Editor
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by Editor » 1st January 2018 - 2:34pm

It must make the sill assembly that bit stronger to have the web there. The eater pipe doesn't add much as it's only held by a few spot welds at the ends (AFAIR).
Dave.

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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 2nd January 2018 - 9:52pm

purplepeter wrote:
24th December 2017 - 12:56pm
I work on the theory that vw wouldn't have put it in if it wasn't needed- it adds a bit of extra rigidity
Editor wrote:
1st January 2018 - 2:34pm
It must make the sill assembly that bit stronger to have the web there. The eater pipe doesn't add much as it's only held by a few spot welds at the ends (AFAIR).
Both of you and a friend of mine all make the same argument so I will be fabing up a coupe of these panels in the coming weeks!

Progress marches on. Ive removed the inner wing as it was made from a number of smaller bits during my poor student days.

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This was sad face

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Not my greatest work but I tried to repair this channel section.

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With this joined up it should give it, its strength back. I Could see my old shoddy repair to the bulk head though. The outer was good but the inner was poor. So out it all had to come.

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Some of the photos seem to have gone missing. So theres a few steps skipped here.

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And this is a terrible photo because of the light.

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But thats all stitched back together, it will need cleaning up and prepping but for now im just focusing on getting the repairs done. Then ill get on with a good grinding down session and paint it all up. Im glad its out of the way, it was an unplanned job and a bugger to do.

I then got back on with the planned job, the inner wing skin. Before I could start i needed to get the sill to wing fit sorted. So i made a few cuts in the sill and was left with this.

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Im much happier to use this as a starting point for adjustment

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More to come!
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purplepeter
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by purplepeter » 4th January 2018 - 2:17pm

Bear in mind that the extra layer of metal when You do the web panel, will make the outer sill sit further out!
I used an air joggler/crimper to get it all nice & tight before spot welding

I think there's supposed to be a teeny kink at each end on the bottom edge to act as a drain for the outer sill

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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 4th January 2018 - 8:19pm

Yes, ive factored in about a mm, and theres always room to chop and change! hope to have the inner wing done sunday and then back to the sill next week. THe sill pressings ive bought have got the drains in them already, I was quite pleased with this! I'm fortunate enough to work for an aviation repair company so we have access to all manner of exciting metal shaping tools :D
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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 9th January 2018 - 9:58pm

Right trying to catch up with the posts vs reality! I began fabbing up the new panel.

CAD was a major player in this, as i started I notice this bow in the seal channel.

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This would need correcting. Having looked at various cars online most of them seem to have the pressings roughly up to the scuttle panel. So I had to cut one section out of the old front end.

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With that section tacked in, I began the card board shaping. A number of hours passed.

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My target was to produce this skin panel in one piece, fewer welded seams, less opportunity for it to corrode! But this became very challenging to make out of card so I had sinking doubts about making this from 1 sheet of steel with only a few hitting sticks and dollys.

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Lets have at it then, steel time. first a rough cut and I gave myself a way to securing it to the car for shaping. And sent it through the strinker to put a slight arc in to try and match the contour of the wing.

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A couple of rough folds gave me that start

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It wasnt too much further down the road that I started to get very difficult as the panel started to fight its self so I had to apply some heat, this helped to relax some areas allowing others to stretch

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It was still getting very close to the contour of the structural member on the inside

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Ive then tried to match it up to all the other panels involced in the area.

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And the check the wing curve was a good match, I also trial fitted the wing with the sill and everything is lining up nicely.

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The final test was wheel clearance. I know the suspension is at ride height rather than full compression but it has adequate clearance

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sparkywig
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by sparkywig » 9th January 2018 - 11:35pm

Fair play to you, I don’t have the equipment, garage or patience to do this.
I just bought some body cuts from the States

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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 9th January 2018 - 11:52pm

Other than the borrowed strinker for the curve. The rest have just been blow torch, hammer, dolly. I can see how lacking a garage or patients would make it more difficult though :D
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937carrera
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by 937carrera » 10th January 2018 - 12:58am

broady_6 wrote:
9th January 2018 - 11:52pm
I can see how lacking a garage or patients would make it more difficult though :D
Do you do medical work too :) :D I might book myself in.

Seriously, how long did it take to fab that inner wing up - a full day and how thick is the steel you are using for replacement panels?
David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 10th January 2018 - 8:54am

937carrera wrote:
10th January 2018 - 12:58am
broady_6 wrote:
9th January 2018 - 11:52pm
I can see how lacking a garage or patients would make it more difficult though :D
Do you do medical work too :) :D I might book myself in.

Seriously, how long did it take to fab that inner wing up - a full day and how thick is the steel you are using for replacement panels?
I'm not big on blood and guts unless its my own!

Including making the CAD its been around 9-10 hours, and theres just a little finessing to do. I can probably tweek it as I weld it now the heat will help. (I hope) I'm using .8mm
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kaddy
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by kaddy » 11th January 2018 - 3:13pm

Will you stop moving the bar up higher :D

Nice tasty job, patience is what its all about at this level. 8)

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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 11th January 2018 - 9:11pm

very kind of you to say so, but im not! Ive see much higher standards. But i am happy at how my skills are improving. i wouldn't have dream of attempting a panel like that this time last year. So very skill tin bashers from aerospace brough back in the day at work have been whispering tips to me so im very lucky to have that as a resource too
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kaddy
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by kaddy » 11th January 2018 - 10:16pm

Nice to see what good hand/eye co ordination can do.

You wont find any modern day techno robot that could tackle that.

Gimme old school.....

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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 20th January 2018 - 10:10pm

]Very kind of you!

Lets try and bring this nonsense up to date then.

I started welding the panel in and trimming sections as I went.

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Before i went 110% and fixed it in I did a couple more wing alignment checks. Its a job to see here but the wing is a bit proud towards the rear.

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With some more heat and thumping I got it all a little closer. Once joined to the top section this will line up nicely.

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here we go then, welded all the way around!

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Time to start filling in the bulk head gaps.

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I decided to remove the worst of the pitted section, it was spot welded to the box underneath. So a bit trickery to get out but i drilled them out then used a sharp chisel to break it off.

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With that all taken care of I felt I was getting somewhere and returned to the sill. After a little discussion it was advisable that the strengthening web we fitted. So I had to manufacture something. I needed a pattern before I committed to a full meter length.

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Looking for a diameter of about 80mm

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These rollers arent able to roll a tight enough radii so I ended up at this.

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Into the folder to put a couple of flanges on it.

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Clearly this was too wide. It was touching the inside of the sill, a great moisture trap.

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I crudely gave it a squash in the vice, it became bang on and this was used as my pattern.

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As weve seen the rollers werent going to give me an 80mm diameter so some lateral thinking was needed. I ordered up a sheet of 1mm and slived a section off.

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The engineer suggested putting many small bends in with the folder to get it as tight as i needed. You can faintly see the reference lines here.

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And also that I was a bit crease happy and over bent the flanges.

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I clamped it on to the bench and just about pulled it back. Though ive yet to offer it up and prove the final fit. Thats tomorrow job. forecast of 0 degrees. And peeing down all day, so ill look forward to a runny nose in the garage!

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kaddy
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by kaddy » 31st January 2018 - 2:38pm

That brings back memories.

Thats where the time goes by, but keeps you on top of your game.

Think you are spoiling that fasty :D

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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 2nd February 2018 - 9:26pm

Cheers gents! I always helps to know folks are still reading it.

After a little bending action in the previous post i got this fit.

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I think did a mock up with all the panels at once. It was all fairly close but the bottom of the front wing wasnt tucking in all the way.

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The new panel wasnt a perfect fit, it was probably a combination of aftermarket panel and fiberglass wing. So ive had to cut the bottom out for some rejiggering.

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I then committed and welded in the strengthening web.

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Ive also been struggling with "feel" while fitting fiddly panels so I decided id treat myself to some thinner gloves.

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Then the brave moment, this took med about 2 hours of trimming and finessing. I started to tack it on here and there and then bend and beat.

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The closer I got the more weld I was brave enough to add until I reached the big moment of stitched on at each end!

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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 4th February 2018 - 9:47pm

A brief update but it keeps it current, I had a few more items into the powder coaters before Christmas, My rear valance is completely shot. There are fewer holes in a cheese greater. But many years ago I managed to get my hands on what looked to be a solid one, it was grotty and covered in waxoyl so blastward it went. I got them to put a light primer on once it was bare just to prevent further deterioration. Anyway I was a little upset when I got this back.

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Leaving me in a spot of bother as I will need to find a solution to the pin holes. Still its better than the original panel.

With experience in hand I decided to make headway on the other side sill and heater.

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It doesn't look as bad as the other side. Clear evidence of the existence of a tube there.

With the worst of the rot cut out.

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But the A pillar really didnt look that great, yet again I had to cut the bottom hinge mount off.

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The same idea here reuse the elbow but sacked the rest of it off and put in a nice new tube.

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I then knocked up a closing panel for the flap. Ill be some what glossing over this as you saw how it was done on the otherside.

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I haven't fastened it in yet but Ive welded the sections on to the tube and mocked it all up.

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Final job of the weekend was to drill some holes for cavity protection in the future.
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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 17th February 2018 - 6:12pm

Time I gave you a little more gen! Ive got a bit done but ive let myself be distracted by other interests and the fact its been cold I wasnt that excited about the garage!

None the less I have finished the heater tube. I mocked it all up to make the closing plate.

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And then seam sealed up all I could get too.

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And instilated.

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Far fewer photos this time, you know what I did last time on the otherside!

I then made the strengthening web one the folder again. I had a small off cut from the other side to use as a pattern so I could get it much closer first time out.

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Thats as far as Im taking that for now. I will replace the arch before I return to the sill. The main issue with this arch is that the wheel will rub on it at full lock.

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Some angle grinding later

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I rescued another sliver from the old front end, I gave it a good showing of the strip disc and the metal underneath was in good order.

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I then tried to use my wing as a line to work on so I could refabricate the bonnet seal channel. At this point I realised I needed to do some fiber glassing to repair a couple of the mounting holes.

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As illustrated here

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This is something I never really had the need to do before, so time to have ago at learning an new skill. Bit of an awkward shape to try and get the thing to form round. I used my power file to remove a lot of old material so that the sheet that I applied wouldn't build up too thick. I then through a decent covering on and to give me a basic shape.

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Once I had trimmed it with a hacksaw. I had this rough shape.

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More sanding and a hole drilled. I have since slotted this slighty to match the adjustment on the other mounting holes.

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I have also carried out a couple of small crack repairs. But the other major repair was the captive nut on the head lamp bowl.

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My first thought was to fill it all in and start from scratch.

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Once it had cured, I drilled a pilot hole in the back and I dropped a nut in and put a little resin around it.

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And then glassed over it, and theres where I left it. But the next step will be to drill through and check the nut is still secure.

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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 25th February 2018 - 11:10pm

On with the resto, only a small update for you. The plan, I forget what letter were on now, for this side was the use the original filler neck hole and fit that into the newly formed panel.

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Once cut out you can see it wasnt in a well way.

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I grafted this in with a few temporary welds once positioned with the full filler neck assembled. Just to give me a point of reference when making the new panel.

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Ill breeze through this bit, you saw how i did it!

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Let the bashing commence.

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You'll note that I have had to cut out the pressed panel I had tacked in, it wasnt giving me enough room to work the metal.

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A good 3 hours work got me to here.

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Its very nearly fitted, Ive started trimming the excess off, once tacked in I will be able to cut out the filler neck hole.
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purplepeter
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by purplepeter » 25th February 2018 - 11:14pm

I'm amazed You've still got a windscreen with all that bashing!
How's the captive nut in headlight bowl repair?- I can pop a rivnut in the post if that'd help?

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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 25th February 2018 - 11:22pm

Most of the bashing its done off the car to try and save the screen. The head lamp nut seems to be nice and secure. I ran a tap down it to clear and resin that may have found its way in and then put a head lamp screw in. So fingers crossed its held well enough. Thank you kindly for the offer, if this goes T U I'll be in touch
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kaddy
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by kaddy » 26th February 2018 - 10:07am

Bashing a panel that big is bloody hard work, it just seems that when you have it just where you need it to

be, and boom another bash seems to put it all out of shape. Definitely trying work.

Probably why so many repairs are made up of zillions of patches. But the one panel

is the business. Nice one

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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 27th February 2018 - 10:19pm

Youre not wrong there, I had an hour and a half at it last night. ive now started trimming it down which enabled me to beat the final shape in. And as you say it pulls some metal in from else where so I have to be very careful with the trimming. My one piece idea is an longevity idea, thats the hope anyway.
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