1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 4th March 2018 - 10:24pm

Just a brief update for you here, although ive been busy, its just been panel bashing and trimming.

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The only major thing ive done that's photo worthy was to correct a repair from a long time ago. The scuttle corner didn't match my wing shape.

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This is much more the right shape. And didn't take me long at all, while weve been snow bound (its was only about 8 hours really)

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Then before welding in the inner wing panel, I mocked it all up to make sure the wing could sit in far enough to meet the sill.

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With that all fitting well enough I have gone ahead and welded it in, no photos yes as I forgot and its chilly out there now. The next step is to get the filler neck hole in, then ill return to the sill.
The sultan of swing

kaddy
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by kaddy » 4th March 2018 - 11:27pm

Its definitely the small fiddly bits that take up the time. Its often hard to make progress,

but they have to be done properly all the same.

Looking good...

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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 13th March 2018 - 9:54pm

Lets see if I can write this in some sort of order then.

Some general beating to start with

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You know the rest, weld a bit tap it a little and weld some more. The next step was to try and recreate the filler neck rubber orifice.

The result was this smokey mess.

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I tried to strip it down and find the fault, but the thing had melted so quickly that I cant get the armature out, I think the thick gloves and low RPM meant I didn't feel the heat and the fan wasn't throwing the smoke out that by the time I noticed it was all to late. Ive kept the gearbox and skipped the rest, a replacement was found on fleabay.

I did manage to get this hole through with a smaller drill after the bigger brothers death.

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A small measuring cock up resulted in the top of the panel leaving a 5mm gap, so rather than trying to fudge it I cut it off and made a small panel to drop in.

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With that out the way the last of what I consider to be the big welding jobs could begin, the sill.

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I started out with quite a large gap to the bottom of the door.

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With it welded in and all panel up, I happier with this side than the passengers side.

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Feeling quite pleased to have this all stuck together now! A few smaller jobs to work on this week.
The sultan of swing

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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 18th March 2018 - 11:13pm

After the great motivational progress of the last update, a dose of reality was thrown my way.

A slightly light start, when stripping the drivers door I found it had the anti theft lock protection plate fitted. after a root around in a spare door I found I had a pair. So these will be of to the powder coaters.

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With the basic structure of the car sorted i felt it safe to take the body off to enable the access I needed to tidy up pan edges and genrally strip all the grotty waxoyl off. Ive learned alot of about corrosion protection and waxoyl aint the wayto do it any more.

I meaured up to make sure id clear the shoock towers and started to make some trestles on casters.

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I bravely sat on them in the middle and jiggled around, I then filled in a detailed form to conclude I had a suitable safety factor :D

Having at one point or another had the bolts out on this none of them caused any issues and I had it all unbolted in half an hours. My next challenge was how do I lift the body high enough on my own to get the trestles under.

Idea number 1

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So the action shots were missed as I had to do some tricky ballancing. Butthe short version is jacking as I photographed and then outting blocks in between the shock tower and the body at the back until it was the height of the trestle. I think unscrewed part of the trestle and slid the croos beam through and reassembled the trestle, using the jackto take the weight I removed the spacer blocks and lowered onto the trestle.

The front was much easier as the majority of the weight is at the back so I can lift the front and kick the trestle under and then position as required.

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Oh how smug I felt with myself, off I went for a brew and a sandwhich.

It was only when I tried to roll the body back the issues started to arise, the wheels hit the sills. Doh!!! To make up the difference the easiest way I could I slid some more battons of wood under the body and remove the rear wheels on the chassis and got the thing over. Though this weekend is been 0degrees or worse and a couple of inches of snow. So I havent been able to get the body out, but here it is at its new altitude.

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Having never had the body off I sort of expected but really didn't want to admit to myself that I would find this.

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The major structural parts are still good and solid so it isn't all doom and gloom but Its still more work I didn't want to do. Anywho feeling sorry for myself isn't going to get the car on the road. I just got stuck in and with in 3 hours this happened.

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Just the pan corner to repair and that's that job sorted. The otherside requires similar work but not quite as extensive.( I hope) Looking forward to sticking the body outside so I can have a bit more fighting room. I want to get the pan off the sub frame and strip it all down then give it a good coat of epoxy primer. Lets hope the snow buggers off and it warms up.
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937carrera
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by 937carrera » 18th March 2018 - 11:37pm

I thought you were putting it back together, now you're taking it all apart again. Does this mean the body is getting a full repaint ?
David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 18th March 2018 - 11:49pm

That's what this is all in aid of. I probably neglected to mention it, but the start of this overhaul in October is undo all the repairs ive done in the past with the new skills and knowledge I have now because they car needs repainting, and there is no point what so ever painting a car that's going to fall apart in a couple of years :D

So body off to sort out these sorts of issues before they're too bad means that I wont need to pull to bits a freshly painted car
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kaddy
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by kaddy » 19th March 2018 - 12:19am

Thats the problem with upping the skilset, we will always have a tendency to keep inspecting

what we done in a previous life, and it doesn't always pass muster :lol:

If we get too critical, we get shiteloads of more work to do :shock:

But its good to do it as well as we are able all the same, and gives us an enjoyable thread.

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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 19th March 2018 - 8:57am

Indeed, but this time I'm much wiser and wealthier. as a student I cut all sorts of horrible corners. So its not a car of ill look at this in 5 years and tear it all to bits again. While not perfect the work I'm doing will be good enough to last another 20 years or so. which will do for me :D
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kaddy
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by kaddy » 21st March 2018 - 2:13pm

I think your last sentiment sums up my asperations perfectly too.

I,m not aiming for nor am I after a perfect example of a Type 3. I,m

after a good solid vehicle that I can rely on with a set of "Take me anywhere and get me home

mechanics".

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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 27th March 2018 - 10:21pm

kaddy wrote:
21st March 2018 - 2:13pm
I think your last sentiment sums up my asperations perfectly too.

I,m not aiming for nor am I after a perfect example of a Type 3. I,m

after a good solid vehicle that I can rely on with a set of "Take me anywhere and get me home

mechanics".
Well kind of, i am going to be playing with silly engines so I expect a few stuck in a field swearing trips too!

Elbow deep in my B1 license course for a few weeks but I do get the odd hour to spare in the garage.

Now thats were mobile it was time to take advantage of said fact and make some working room.

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And with the body out the way I could do the matching repair to the drivers side of the pan.

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I forgot to photograph the small piece from the underside. But it is in there
The fact I was grinding the surface rust away left a lot of dust making things look alot more orange than they really are.

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Pretty happy with that one myself :D

A sudden burst of mild weather at the weekend quickly drew my attention back to the body and the removal of the old waxoyl and sealer from the rear arches and boot floor. So Saturday I wheeled it our and spend 4 - 5 hours with a blow torch, heat gun, chisel, scraper and angle grinder getting it all off. As well needed as this was, some places were stuck fast other is pealed away. It found me some more holes to repair.

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I seem to have forgotten how to weld here. it very bird s@*ty

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The last job I did was this evening,

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So thats lots of work done down a road I never planned to head down! Still were nearly back to where we should have been a couple of weeks ago and there isnt an inch of the car I havent seen now so I cant be rotten anywhere else!
The sultan of swing

kaddy
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by kaddy » 27th March 2018 - 11:19pm

Please make the nice man stop welding in this area.. :)

Its bringing back too many painful memories of what my own was like :evil:

Its an awful tricky spot to make any large panel pieces, damn all them compound curves.

So you think there,s no more rust anywhere :nod: never say never.

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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 28th March 2018 - 7:16am

Ive had it for a a lot of years, I know where it all is now :) It cant beat me haha
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kaddy
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by kaddy » 28th March 2018 - 12:51pm

I've seen grown men whimper at a lot less rust :D

Nothing like a type 3 resto, and non availability of certain panels to

harden you up :lol:

You will miss the rust like an old friend when its gone :crybaby: :D

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937carrera
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by 937carrera » 28th March 2018 - 1:21pm

kaddy wrote:
28th March 2018 - 12:51pm
You will miss the rust like an old friend when its gone :crybaby: :D
If you're missing the rust, I've got plenty you can come & look at, fix it if you like as well, no charge :D
David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

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sparkywig
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by sparkywig » 28th March 2018 - 1:47pm

937carrera wrote:
28th March 2018 - 1:21pm
kaddy wrote:
28th March 2018 - 12:51pm
You will miss the rust like an old friend when its gone :crybaby: :D
If you're missing the rust, I've got plenty you can come & look at, fix it if you like as well, no charge :D
Form an orderly queue please.

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muddy
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by muddy » 30th March 2018 - 6:30pm

Impressive so far.

Wish had an early year as lifting the body would have been so much easier on my resto. Having to remove the engine and box to lift the body is a pain.

I'm certainly not missing the late nights of welding and rust removal. Did myself a good few injurys with an angle grinder.
1973 VW Type 3 1600 TE Fastback. Under restoration

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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 30th March 2018 - 7:17pm

Cheers very much!

This is a late car too. I haven't removed the engine and box as such, just taken the sub frame off the pan. It's loads better, with a couple of casters and leave the wheels on. You can the move rear axel, box and engine around as one lump. I'm rather fed up of it now. I can see why I hadn't done any resto work for a good few years! And I bet it's a few year before I show any interest again
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Editor
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by Editor » 31st March 2018 - 12:20pm

Hope you get it done before your knees and hips get creaky and everything stiffens up (or not as the case may be). I can report that WD40 doesn't work on seized-up human bodies!
Dave.

kaddy
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by kaddy » 31st March 2018 - 1:02pm

I bet you have the next candidate lined up already :D

I have , its a 68 beetle, and there are millions of panels readily available
cheap as chips.

I think what puts the hardship into a type 3 resto is the scarcity of panels,
and the expense of them if you can get them.

I know I would have bought them if they were reasonable and available.

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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by Editor » 31st March 2018 - 1:09pm

Hmm, lots of panels even for my '59 Beetle, but pricey after the almost free metal bashing on a Type 3! The engine is a bit too different from later ones though, but I've a couple of 30hp to make one OK one from - got to get started on the usual body bits first though.
Dave.

kaddy
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by kaddy » 31st March 2018 - 1:59pm

Yes, free has it advantages too.
Sounds like none of us is ever going to be too far from rusty stuff then.

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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 31st March 2018 - 9:25pm

Editor wrote:
31st March 2018 - 12:20pm
Hope you get it done before your knees and hips get creaky and everything stiffens up (or not as the case may be). I can report that WD40 doesn't work on seized-up human bodies!
I am slowly seizing up, though its muscle ache rather than joints. From sitting at odd angles to clean up and reach various bit plus ive been getting back on the bike recently, not that there is any point with the weather still being shite. Has anyone been consulted on this? I thought the crap weather was also issued when it was dark. The clocks have changed now, it doesn't need to be -5 any more, but I digress.
kaddy wrote:
31st March 2018 - 1:02pm
I bet you have the next candidate lined up already :D

I have , its a 68 beetle, and there are millions of panels readily available
cheap as chips.

I think what puts the hardship into a type 3 resto is the scarcity of panels,
and the expense of them if you can get them.

I know I would have bought them if they were reasonable and available.
Hmm I might have had it for 18 months. but its now where near as intense as this, its an 81 mini which in short needs painting and putting back together! But it will wait some time yet. I need a dose of summer. Also be careful with cheap panels, they are often a very crap fit, or made from waffer thin steel so arent much better than the bits you cut off. its worth paying a little more for the better panels. The type 3 is a more complex construction so even if a lot of the panels were around, they would be incredibly hard to fit.

Although a lot of works gone into the last 48 hours, the update is brief.

I have folded a couple of sections of seal channel for the rear section of the body to pan area.

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From then on you know how it works, so the pictures can talk.

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So thats the passenger side nailed back together and I set about attacking the passengers side.

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This was a tricky one to try and cut out.

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The only exciting news is that my pair of German door seals arrived, and I can report the quality seems great and they do fit the door very well. If anything they're a bit on the tick side but as they spend 90% of their life compressed im sure they will thin down in 5 or 10 years!

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kaddy
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by kaddy » 31st March 2018 - 10:10pm

Nice.

Sure you are making it look too easy, everyone will want to have a go.

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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 8th April 2018 - 10:00pm

kaddy wrote:
31st March 2018 - 10:10pm
Nice.

Sure you are making it look too easy, everyone will want to have a go.
They are quite welcome! I feel like i've had enough of the 11pm finishes in the garage. One more evening this week and then im taking a week off! Well from manual work, I've got to study aviation legislation. And all the odd jobs that i need to catch up with in real life.

Those of you with an eagles eye might have noticed I hadn't quite finished the drivers side arch panel where it meets the bulk head. I was waiting for the body off section of the resto to give me more working room.

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I think dropped in some seal channel section under the rear seat area

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That only leaves an few small body jobs to do. But the weathers suddely picked up from from minus stupid to nice and mild. So I got the pan outside for a strip down.

No where near as pretty as I recalled it being, i spend an evening desealing it.

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It clearly needed work, but there was no way im paying £1000 for a pair of floor pan sections. As wonderful as it is someones making them again. Its not a justifiable price. Id have gone as wild as £600. I wonder how many they sell?

Some light research and brain racking pointed me towards ghia pans. £200 and 24 hours went passed. These were on my door step.

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Id say theyre a good 75% out of the box. The swan neck to the frame head isn't as tight as a type 3 and the back sections completely different. But it can be made to fit with a few days effort. So to save £800 is well worth it, or even paying a fabricator a couple of days labour.

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So left the hacking begin. I tried to remember to document it for other folks as reference

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A pretty decent fit, just the rear to make fit. My pan is to get both halves just about fitted, then take the spine out, clean it all down to bare metal. Mock it all back up and weld the pans in. Then give it a nice coat of epoxy.

To that end the drivers side started to take shape.

Ive alse taken all the furniture off the old pans and will be getting it blasted before refitting it.
The sultan of swing

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muddy
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by muddy » 9th April 2018 - 1:03pm

Your pan strip down and repair brings back some memorys for me last year.

I too, used a combination of beetle and ghia floor pans, plus some type 3 edges to repair my floor pan. Time and patience will see you through.

I priced up the Klassic fab floor pans with C&C and couldn't justify £1000 (Insane). My pans were in decent knick, just need a few edges doing.
1973 VW Type 3 1600 TE Fastback. Under restoration

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